The Electrifying Execution of Ruth Snyder by Near Death Dolls

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Show Notes

Paige and Lisa, otherwise known as the Near Death Dolls, take you through the murderous escapades of black widow wannabe Ruth Snyder. She’s out to kill her motorboating husband for the insurance money, with the help of her corset salesman side-piece. Sparks will fly when she meets her maker and Ruth will become famous for a shocking reason!

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Welcome to True Crime by Indie Drop-In each week, we feature an episode from the best independent creators hit subscribe for more great, true crime content. If you would like to help indie drop-in support indie creators, you can buy us a coffee. Just go to Today’s episode is from near death dolls.

(1m 26s):
Don’t forget to check out the show notes for links to subscribe and follow on social media. Enjoy the show. Hello, and welcome to episode 20 of near death thaws. I’m Paige and I’m Lisa and we are your hosts. These with the most to use while talking about ghosties and other electrifying shit. I got chills them multiply in. Oh yeah.

(2m 8s):
Nice. Okay. So thank you for joining us today as page talks about the execution of Ruth Snyder. Hail. Yeah. That’s why it’s electrifying and why you have chills execution, huh? Yes. Oh, electrifying execution. By the way, there are many methods. Yeah. I was about to say there’s different ways to execute, but I have a feeling this has something to do with electricity. It might. It might. It does. Yeah. Yeah. There’s no question. She got electric chair. Oh my, yeah. Before we get started though, before we start talking about Ruth in her electric chair friend, I wanted to ask a favor of our amazing listeners.

(2m 49s):
Would you please just take a quick second and leave us a review on Apple podcasts, even if it’s just a quick Wu, love this podcast and leave some stars. We’d love you forever. Well, we already love you. You’re well, unconditional, but we’d love you a little extra more. Yes we would. So Lisa what’s wetting your whistle today. Oops. With wetting my whistle today, I am drinking a peanut Griese Chateau St. Michelle. That sounds delicious. It is page. What are you drinking? I am literally just drinking a vodka lemonade. I think that’s a beautiful thing. It is beautiful in its simplicity, but I’ll tell you where the vodka came from.

(3m 30s):
Please do it is deep Eddy brand vodka, and it’s in Austin, Texas to still detoxing, testis, testis, and authenticity as fantastic. How much have you drank? Not a lot, but I guess that deep Eddy gets deep in me. I’ll tell you. One of my favorite things to do is have the deep Eddy sweet tea vodka and mixed that with lemonade. So It’s like a flavor it’s sweet tea flavors. Oh, I gotta try that. I wonder if I can find it. Oh, Be able to find it. They have that flavor. They have a grapefruit flavor, which is amazing. I bought all the little mini travel bottles. One time of all the different flavors and mix them with soda Triumph.

(4m 9s):
Ooh, definitely love the grapes Fruit one. And then I also, I have a big thing of the sweet tea one and I mix that with lemonade. And as a spike, Arnold Palmer speak in my language right now. That sounds delicious. You can drink so many of those and you’ll feel so good. Good. How’d you know, that’s how I like it. I like to feel good to Paige. I do, but I have a feeling this Lady that we’re going to talk about, she Is going to feel pretty bad. She’s going to feel bad, but she also likes to feel good. And that’s that’s, what’s going to lead her to the electric tier. Oh my. Okay. So we’re giving it away all up front. It’s very, Snyder’s going to the electric chair. Exactly. Ruth Snyder don’t even start rooting for her.

(4m 51s):
You know, she’s already going to die at the end of the story, but before we get into how she dies, let’s get into the why of why she went to the electric chair. I’m guessing she was found guilty of something. Yes. Done story over. Right. Thank you for listening. Please be sure to check us out on Instagram. Just kidding. And then she got sapped and died now. All right. For Ruth Snyder. What made her famous as well as infamous? Was that the story of how she and her lover killed her husband? Like never happens. Never. I feel like I’ve never heard this before. I don’t think you have. It’s a new story.

(5m 32s):
Never happened before women have never tried to cheat on their husbands and kill them afterwards. All right. But you know what? Before we get to Ruth, I do want to give a few little tidbits about the electric chair itself. Things that I found out that I didn’t know. And I thought other people might be interested in. You know what? I am one of those people I am interested. Please, Please tell me. Okay. I’ll tell you and anybody else who doesn’t want to screw you guys. I’m just kidding. Listeners. Are you going to put up with it? They love it. No, I’m just kidding. You’re great. Have some more deep Eddy glutton for punishment. Yeah. Yeah. That’s why they come. No, I’m just kidding.

(6m 12s):
Well, I mean you could phrase it that way. I guess. I don’t judge. This is turning into our dolls after dark. That she’ll be our promo is that little snippet. Hey guys, in case you didn’t know dolls after dark is a special, a unscripted conversation show between me and Paige for our Patriana. I give you three guesses as to why it’s called dolls after dark, after we go dark, after we drink enough to go dark. That’s right. Blackout. Anyways. I’m sorry. Let’s let’s go. Let’s get back on track. Yeah. Let’s talk a little bit about these electric chairs. So this is some of the history of the electric chair first invented by a dentist of all people. Wow. I know. Right. I think he was used to having chairs.

(6m 53s):
And so he’s like electric chair. Same thing as what I use. Yeah, because I do not want to associate the dentist and the electric chair. Right? I don’t need that. I don’t need that association. I’ve already got enough issues with the dentists, but this guy, he was in the late 18 hundreds. His name was Alfred P Southwick. Nice. And how he came up with the idea was he was at a lecture hall and there was a medical examiner up at the front of the lecture hall, talking about an autopsy. He had done on a man who was a drunk dock worker and snuck into the power plant for the electric company. What would he do in there?

(7m 32s):
Apparently at some point in his life, I don’t know how we know this. Cause all I know about those guys that he’s dead, but we know that some point in his life, he touched an electric fence and liked the way it tinkled in his arms. Excuse me. That’s apparently the story. I don’t know how we know that. Maybe he told somebody, excuse me. Oh my goodness. Wow. That was delicious. And deep. Eddy’s trying to come on up. Oh my not so deep. But anyway, this guy, he snuck into the electric company, power plant and touched a bigger live wire than he touched before and ended up electrocuting himself to death. Wait, so yeah, that’s the guy who was doing the autopsy found it interesting because he hadn’t really seen somebody electrocuted to death before this, since they hadn’t had cities powered by electricity for too much ahead of this.

(8m 26s):
So anyway, he was talking about it at a lecture. Alfred P Southwick was in the audience and was like, Oh, electrocution deaths by electrocution. Okay. Maybe this is a moneymaker. I can start selling this to the cities to kill their inmates with, for the death penalty. I mean, I feel like there’s a lot of ways that you can say, Hmm, That’s a good way to kill somebody. I I’m just, I’m just very curious as to why he’s like this, this is the new way we’re going to do it. I don’t know why it sparked his Interest. I really don’t That interest. Did you mean to say, Oh my God, I did not mean to say, I should have wrote that down.

(9m 8s):
That was a beautiful Floridians. It worked fine. It worked out just what I needed, I guess. But yes, it wink sparked wink his interest, But he, so when he did first was he set it up to use on animals at the local pound for euthanasia. And that’s how he would test it on, on animals before they started testing it on inmates. That, that makes me almost want to vomit thinking of a poor animal, being electrocuted, like, you know, screw people. You can go to the chair for all. I care. I mean, as long as you’re guilty, but I’m like, don’t hurt the animals. Right. I know. Yeah. They just stray dogs and stray cats that the there’s the Buffalo New York pound that he was getting these animals from.

(9m 53s):
And he killed hundreds of stray dogs and cats before he was like, okay, I think I’ve got it now. Like, okay, I want to punch this guy. So The electric tear itself, after he perfected it on killing animals, it moved it to people. And they found out after several, several years of using the electric chair, that it had one of the lowest rates of botched executions. Why? I feel like my whole thing tonight is just going to be what? Yeah. That was me last week. Sip, sip. What? The shit? Yes. What the shit. Okay. So how, how do you watch, how do you, I mean, do you botch it by like it not killing?

(10m 36s):
Is that how you botch it and that electrocution, it just doesn’t kill you. I think. Yeah. I guess any of these that I’m about to mention all the different methods that has been used in America as a method of execution of all of them, the botched means that they aren’t able to kill them as quickly and humanely as they were hoping, but they still kill them. They always, they kill all of them in the end. They just need to do it. A couple of times Is killing you really considered humane. Anyway, I feel like we’re going to have a whole lot of next thing here, but I mean, I agree like at that point, what does it matter? A couple. Okay. I’m sure it matters a lot to the person going through it, but let’s get into the numbers here because I was surprised at how low the rates are of botched executions.

(11m 24s):
So electric chair, which I said has one of the lowest is at 1.9% of botched checks. That’s actually pretty good. Pretty low. Yeah. The gas chamber is second highest gas chambers at 5.4% botched. Okay. Lethal injection is the highest and that’s the one States currently use and that’s at seven point 12%. So now we’re going to go old school a little bit hanging, which I guess some States you can still try to request hanging, but I don’t, they, they have to go through like a process to approve it. Hanging is at 3.1, 2%. And for that, this is the only one lethal injection and hanging an electric chair are the only ones I know for sure what the botched means.

(12m 8s):
I can just guess for gas chamber, but for hanging the botched means that they either made the short, the rope too short or too long. And particularly when they used to have hangings in front of an audience, public hangings, they wanted to make sure they did it right so that no head went lopping off and hit somebody in the audience or eyeballs popping out or you know, stuff like that. So they’re trying to make sure not to freak out the audience too much. Well, thank you for fueling my nightmares for tonight. You’re welcome. But so I said that electric chair is one of the lowest of the ratings for botched executions, but the actual lowest is 0% for the firings.

(12m 51s):
Okay. Yeah. I’d say gunshot to the face to do it Squad you have several people shooting. Am I correct in assuming that, From what I understand, yes. I feel like the fact that I, for, from what I understand it, several people and I think sometimes they put the bullet in one gun and the rest have blanks and they don’t know that. So the people who do it don’t know who’s actually pulling the killing shot. But do you remember in episode two, the Lafferty brothers, he requested death by firing squad, but ended up just dying of natural causes. Anyway, you mean episode three? Yeah. Was that sorry? I’m sorry. I forgot this one was 20, so yeah.

(13m 32s):
Yeah. I do remember that. That’s funny. It would have been 0% botched, a hundred percent accurate if he had gotten that. But anyway, another fact about the electric chair is that during a botched execution in the electric chair and they, I don’t think they actually know how to stop this from happening. It just happens sometimes. And sometimes it doesn’t, they put a hood on the prisoner so that if their eyeballs pop out while they’re being electrocuted, people don’t see it. So that’s why there’s a hood on it. I feel like they use a hood for most executions. Right. They’ve used it for hangings electrocution. Yeah. Pretty much. And I feel like for hanging as well, it was probably to cover the eyes from popping out.

(14m 17s):
Yeah. That’s just going to roast. Yeah, no thanks. But anyway, my last fact and the one that surprises me the most is that scientifically speaking doctors, aren’t really sure how someone who gets killed in the electric chair, what actually kills them. Oh, it’s a lot of things. It’s all, you know, obviously there’s, there’s reasons that he’s dead, but they’re not sure specifically what it is that makes that killing blow, I guess, Could be like mess up the electrical currents in their brains. Yeah, it does that. So that’s, that’s actually, that’s one of the facts. One of the reasons they think it actually happens is that it fries the brain.

(14m 58s):
So the body’s heating up too much at too quickly and it boils the brain and cooks it. And because of that, at some point when it boils the part of your brain that handles the respiratory system, you stop breathing and die and there they think that’s what it is. That makes sense. Yeah. So, I mean, I feel like that’s probably the answer, but they can’t say for certain, if that’s what kills you or probably amalgamation. I think that’s funny though. They just don’t really know. I mean, with all the technology and all the understanding of the human anatomy and how long they’ve been using it, The electric chair. Yeah. You would think they’d know. I don’t know if maybe they just stopped doing autopsies on those bodies. Cause they’re like, well, we know how they died by electric keeps shit.

(15m 40s):
Yeah. So I’m not sure, actually. I think that’s funny too, but let’s get into Ruth, Ruth Snyder. All right. Who’s this bitch who is bitch? Well, Ruth Snyder was I I’m going to shorten her childhood to one phrase. She was poor and wanted to be rich. I mean, I feel like that’s a lot of us. It’s a lot of us. I really, but for her, her parents were poor immigrants who had moved there. She was born in America and she wanted all the cutesy little girl things that she saw in the toy store and you know, department stores and things like that. She wanted the cute furniture for her bedroom. She wanted a wristwatch, a pony, all kinds of like elitist stuff that there was no way her parents were able to afford.

(16m 26s):
And what year was this again? I’m sorry. Oh, she was born in 1895 in Manhattan. Okay. Okay. Good time to be alive. Yeah. So yeah, she born to immigrant parents who wanted to have all the things to want to be a consumer, but her parents were like, nah, can’t can’t afford it. But so she decided she didn’t really like school. So she couldn’t really, she didn’t feel like she wanted to have a career or anything, but she did learn house making really well. You know, like back then, that was the thing for girls to do. Anyways. You learn how to cook really well. Keep a nice house and keep your family happy and healthy. I think that’s a noble pursuit. I agree. I think that is not where she went wrong.

(17m 8s):
She was being, you know, maybe she was a little greedy with thinking like my parents can’t give me this, so I’m going to get a man who can, but that’s kind of the idea back then anyway. So yeah, she was just, she wanted to have a family. Really. She just wanted to start a family for herself and inter at, at about 19, we’re going to find her husband, her future husband. Yeah. So she was 19. It was about 1914. And Albert, who was 32 when he met Ruth and she was 19, you know, falls in love. They have like almost immediate chemistry. That’s solid kind of a big age gap, but okay. A little bit of an age gap. It’s true. And I, I think it, it, I’m not, if it mattered too much back in the day or not, people were probably getting married like that.

(17m 54s):
But Albert had met her because she was a phone operator and she happened to call his office phone by mistake. Okay. And you know, you have an office, you have an office phone. Lisa, do you think that would be frustrating if someone called me, if someone called you and was like trying to connect you to somebody and they thought you were in a warehouse of some sort and you were like, no, it’s not me. Shit. That happened twice. Last week to me, someone called asking the, by both taco seasoning. And I’m like, we make industrial mufflers for like hospital engines. He’s like, Oh, You don’t sell tacos. He’s like, no. You’re like, don’t you think?

(18m 34s):
I would know if there was a bunch of taco seasoning, lying around that I could sell you. I told my coworker, I said some guy called asking to buy bulk, taco seasoning. She goes, Well, did you sell him some I’m like, damn right. I did. You’ll get the bill in the mail. Like, that’s why you’re the number one employee, my employee of the month I can sell some we don’t even have. So yes. I, I can understand how it can be a little frustrating. Yeah. You’re trying to do your job. You get this call. Well, that’s what happened was Albert was a little frustrated with Ruth for calling and she was kind of new to the job. He did get a little bit upset at her and he started, you know, kind of mouthing off on the phone to her until she said, Oh, I’m so sorry, Sarah.

(19m 17s):
I didn’t mean to do that. She from California, that’s me. That’s just my voice. That sounded a little Valley girl phage probably I’ve got a little Texas little Valley girl mixed together to create a monster of an accent. Well, no one can place it. No one can place it. I’ll say y’all. And talk about surfing in the same sentence. No, I don’t like surfing, but Albert liked the sound of Ruth when she was all cutesy and apologetic. So he asked her where she worked and he wanted to come down and apologize in person. Very nice. I guess. I mean, that’s happened to me before, when I was on the phone with customers and they, I, you know, they’ll like start off the conversation, all heated and then I, you know, calm them down, get them what they need.

(20m 4s):
And at the end of it, they’re like, you know, I’m so sorry that I was yelling at you. You know? I think I know where your office is. Do you mind if I stop by that’s another Valley girl? I swear. I guess that’s the only voice I could do. That’s supposed to be a dude. I guess it is creepy. When you put it like that. Yes. I felt creeped out, plus I didn’t want to meet them, but she did. She was like, yeah, you sound, you know, sophisticated and like an older gentleman. Why don’t you come on, Dan? That sounds great. Now, I guess I’m just leaning in. I’m loving it. I’ll just do it then before we move on, Lisa, I do want to tell you what Albert did for a living.

(20m 47s):
Please tell me he was an art editor for a magazine. Oh, okay. What kind of magazine? I assume it’s a magazine for boating because the name of the magazine is called motorboating. I hope that would tickle you. Cause it tickled me. I deeply tickled. Isn’t that great. I was like, they don’t know what they had back then. That’s my motor book. Motorboat. The son of a bitch. That’s Albert Albert was the motorboating son of a bitch.

(21m 28s):
Except the problem was when he met Ruth, he didn’t have anyone to motorboat. He had been single for a long time. Okay. But he did have a girlfriend before he had a fiance. 10 years before he met Ruth and his former fiance was named Jessie goose shard. We’re going to be talking about her quite a bit, Jesse. yeah. I don’t really know how to say it. Jesse Bouchard. I’m assuming. Sure. I’ll go with Jessica shard. If she has something to say about it, she can tell us. Yeah. Now there’s gonna be a ghost in front of me and be like, it’s, it’s a goose Sheldon right there. Like I heard you, you said it wrong.

(22m 9s):
Don’t don’t use it. Weegee board is the message there. Ain’t doing it. Don’t worry. The first time you open it, it’ll start spelling out how to say . But anyway, poor Jessie, she died of pneumonia while they were engaged before they got married and it devastated little Albert, he was so sad. And he was at her bedside when she died, holding her hand the whole time, romantic and Choate. So tragic. It is it’s pretty tragic. And he never forgot about Jesse ever, ever, ever, not even when he met Ruth. So that’s not so good. That’s a great thing. Sound like they’re about to get sticky.

(22m 50s):
Sorry. Yeah, exactly. You start to loosen the neck tie a little bit like, Ooh. Okay. Here comes. So Albert propose marriage after they’d been dating for a little while and she agreed. She loved, she was so excited to be his wife. But the problem is that once they got married, they realized they shouldn’t have got married. Anyway. How do you figure there’s a couple of different things. First of all, and this might be the one that’s easiest to work through. They had conflicting desires of how to use their free time. Okay. So a one like scrapbooking, the other like stamp, collecting, like that kind of issue. I feel like those two could get along.

(23m 30s):
Okay. As long as they can have their own workspace, but no, for them, it was almost complete opposites. She was the extrovert, social butterfly. She wanted to go out it’s prohibition time. So she wanted to go out, find the little speakeasies dance, smooth, drink booze. I like your rhyme there. But so that’s what she wanted to do. She was a young girl. She wanted to get out there and live her life. But he was in his early thirties, which isn’t old. No, but Once you get there, you’re like, how did I get Here? How did I get here? Yeah. What happened? But he felt like an old man and I get it at that point in his life. He was ready to sit in the evening with a nice book, have dinner, talk to his wife and not necessarily go out dancing.

(24m 20s):
I can Behind them for sure. Especially as I am Of, of a certain low 30 number. Yeah. Yeah. And also he just happened to be more of a philosopher than her. She, she was all about having a good time and laughing and joking around with pals where he, as he wanted to sit and have philosophical discussions about life and universe and what everything means. And he’s an artist, you know? So you can imagine they just didn’t have a lot of time. Sure. I mean, it’s, maybe they could try a little harder, but you know, sometimes at home, But they got married pretty quickly in the relationship. So they didn’t have a lot of time to get to know each other. But like I said, I think that could have gotten worked through, especially if they stayed together and she got older and was like, I don’t want to go dancing anymore.

(25m 5s):
You know? Like you can burn out on it after a while and just give us some time. Yeah, exactly. Or, you know, she also wanted kids. So eventually I assume she wanted to stay home at least part of the time for the kid. But anyway, the other thing that didn’t get worked through and I don’t think ever would have was that Albert was still absolutely in love with Jesse Bouchard, the dead ex fiance. What? Wait, come on, dude. You shouldn’t have gotten married if you weren’t over your former fiance. Like I get it. It’s tragic. And, and I know some people that, you know, have lost a spouse and then they remarried. I don’t think he ever a hundred percent get over it, but you do to a degree to flaunt it.

(25m 47s):
Yeah. So was he very obvious that he missed Jesse? Or did he talk about it Girl so obvious. Like he, I think after they got married, it probably got worse because the more he realized he didn’t actually like Ruth all that much. The more he gravitated towards Jesse and mem remembering her, Please don’t tell me that he gravitated towards like her like dug up her body. Allah, Carl van causal count. No, this isn’t caravan coastal style. No thank goodness. No, he just, he had a lot of memorabilia, but not her body Ophelia. What, what, what did he have? Okay. I’ll tell you. I’ll tell you. He had a couple of things.

(26m 28s):
He had a boat that he named after Jesse and he named the boat Jesse, after he married Ruth to that kind of sucks. That’s a slap in the face. It is a little bit of a slap in the face and Ruth didn’t like it, as you can imagine. I can’t imagine. Yeah. Yeah. I’d be pissed. And he would say things like when he was talking about Jessie, he’d say things like, and Jesse was the finest woman I’ve ever known. Pointedly looks at Ruth, you know, you’re kidding me. Like, fuck. He would say that everybody heard him say that poor Ruth over there in the corner. Like, I don’t know what I am chopped liver. So that kind of sex. She didn’t like that. But he, you know, that those are kind of the big things. The other stuff he had was like, he had a photo album with all pictures of him and Jesse.

(27m 11s):
Okay. I hope you can hear my eyes roll. And you know, he had To hold on to that. They moved around a couple of times. I’m sure she kept trying to throw it away, but he didn’t let her, I don’t know. I would totally try and throw it away. Yes. I’d be like, Oh, it burned in the oven somehow. I don’t know how cold I would be if I would truly throw something like that away or what, but I would definitely be hurt. I would be hurt too. You know, I’ve actually, I’ve heard of couples who are really, because both of them have laughed. People like both of them are with widows or widowers, you know, that they’re able to honor their previous, you know, loved ones while still maintaining their current relationship.

(27m 51s):
And they kind of, you know, both talk about their dead loved ones together and it helps them heal and stuff. So it’s definitely possible. But Albert was kind of doing it like a Dick. Don’t be an album like Dick. Yeah, exactly. The straw that broke the camel’s back for this was that he had a painting with Jesse on it. Like he had a painting of Jesse up in their living room. Okay. Now look, the boat, the boat was already the last straw for me, but this, this is something entirely different. This is grounds for divorce Bull shit. Yeah. And if they would get into really nasty arguments, which they did frequently, she would get pissed off and try to take the painting down and like get rid of it.

(28m 34s):
And he would fly into a rage until she put it back up. I’m sorry. This guy had no business re or getting married if he just was not over. I know it’s some it’s simple shit. And so one more little tidbit that’s going to come up later in the story is that he had a tie pin that said her initials, which were JG. So remember that this is totally A Robert breathy and type dude where he can’t get over Leanna and he’s married to, Oh my God, you’re right. He’s married to a new woman. Who’s, you know, by all accounts, a beautiful, good wife to have whatever, but he just cannot let go of that one girl who might not have even liked him that much. Anyway, we don’t know.

(29m 14s):
Cause she’s dead. You know? And for all of you guys, yeah. That was a game of Thrones Just in case you’re like, I’m sorry, guy. I would be very surprised if anyone who wants to listen to this podcast beyond a couple of episodes, didn’t watch game of Thrones at some point. Hopefully you’re all are nerds. And even if you’re not it’s okay, but you’re still welcome. You’re still good. So, you know, we, we talk about game of Thrones. The threatens is we will try our like Lisa adjusted To tell you what we’re talking about, because I hate it when I’m listening to a podcast and they throw out some dumb movie reference I’ve never heard of. And then they keep talking and I’m like, what is that? Yeah. So we’ll try not to do that to you guys.

(29m 55s):
But anyway, there’s solution to this marriage problem that Ruth had was to have a baby at 1918 because that’s all, it’s every problem in a marriage. Oh yeah. It doesn’t cause new problems at all. By making people stressed out and tired all the time and poor and it’s not going to help. It’s just not, it does not help. If you’re already having marriage problems, it’s not going to help. And it didn’t specifically with these guys. They had a baby girl named Lorraine in 1918. Ruth was so excited. She was so happy to have a little girl of her own that she could spoil and treat. Right. Exactly. Do her hair, whatever. But Albert, on the other hand said he didn’t want kids and was not happy that she got pregnant and it’s like, dude, what did you think you guys were doing in the bedroom this whole time you were making babies.

(30m 47s):
What did you think was going to happen? Oh man, he didn’t have the talk before, I guess. I don’t know. Apparently not. And they didn’t have reliable birth control back then. So come on dude. But whatever it didn’t say their marriage that Ruth now at her wit’s end just, you know her, she’s basically just concentrating on her daughter and herself and whatever. With Albert incomes, the side piece At Facebook, we’ve tripled our safety and security teams and invested billions to keep our platforms safe. What’s next we support updated internet regulations that said clear rules for addressing today’s toughest challenges. Learn more at, Hike the trail, check order takeout, check, schedule, heart checkup done.

(31m 35s):
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(32m 24s):
Schedule your care. Now learn forward slash safe. Well here’s a side piece. The side piece is a new lever named Judd gray, Jed gray, Jed gray corset salesmen. Oh, love her. Did he really sell corsets? Yes, he was. Of course that salesmen. Well, I mean, I mean, I feel like that’s a job for a lady and like maybe not a door to door kind of thing. I would think so, but I’m pretty sure he was a door to door person. Hello there ma’am are you in the up on top of Flava stop. Oh my God girl. That was great.

(33m 4s):
Do it again. Well, I’m the man for you just see my West. I love it. You’re your Jed. Gray is probably right on, I mean, I don’t know what he sounds like, but they’re in Manhattan, so it’s gotta be something I felt like it had to be snappy. You know, you gotta do all the voices except ballet girl. I’m sure you do it. Great Valley girl, but I’ll take over that one. I can do door to door salesmen in 19 something or another but 20 1920 salesmen. That’s yeah. That’s actually where we are right now. By the way she met Jed gray in 1925. Oh, there we go. And that’s when they started doing the nasty like, like immediately, like I don’t know why they fell in love immediately because from what I hear, Ruth was gorgeous.

(33m 54s):
I mean cheap. That’s what they said anyway from the pictures I think otherwise, but that was also after a murder trial. So it’s hard to say by looking a little tired, I’m sure. I’m sure. I’m sure she lost some of her Leicester after that, but so apparently she was gorgeous, but she was also gregarious and that kind of makes you more attractive. She was very funny and sociable and stuff. So everybody liked Ruth, but Judd was described as being an average Joe and super easy to forget. Well, I would love to be described as that one day. You want to be easy to forget. I mean, you use a blend, right. And not being sarcastic. Let’s let’s start there.

(34m 35s):
Okay. You’re too good at being sarcastic because I thought for sure he wanted that. I know it sounds awful. When I first read that, I was like, Oh, that’s not nice to Judd, but you’ll see later. It’s okay. It’s okay. I don’t like judge Judson asshole. We’ll see. Anyway. You’ll see. So anyway, he’s easily forgettable, average, tight thick glasses, cleft chin. Like there’s nothing rememorable about him, but he also tries to fade into the background and Judd himself. He had a wife at home just like Ruth had a husband. Oh, okay. So devil adult her. That’s how to do it. Right. I don’t know. I wouldn’t know. But so Jed was married. He had a kid and later on while they were going through the murder trial, he said this of his wife direct quote, never could I seem to attain with her, meaning his wife at the time, the comradeship that formed the bond between my mother and myself.

(35m 31s):
So mommy issues. It sounds like Fama’s boy. Oh Lord. Yeah. So he’s a mama’s boy for sure. And he, he said his wife basically. He said his wife was per-click up. Yeah, perfectly fine. Was she now fairly? She was perfectly fine, but there was nothing special about her and they didn’t have any like deep connection. They were just polite to each other, you know, which I think that’s fine. Nothing wrong with being polite to each other. But I guess he wanted more passion. Yeah. Passion’s good in the marriage. But respect and politeness goes a long way too. It can lead to more passion. Yes. That is what lasts. But he wanted somebody who could excite him and he met that person in Ruth.

(36m 12s):
I’m sure they’re both looking for a little something. Something. Yeah. They were, they were both looking for something outside of their wedding and that’s what, that’s what they found. And actually after the affair got going and heated up, he started calling Ruth mumsy come against how much he liked moms. Yeah. Mum, mumsy, mumsy. I’d never even heard that as a, I’ve heard hot mama, but not mumsy or little mama Or something like, well, Hey that mom’s saying To your back, that was bad. Yeah. Mumsy. And she didn’t call him Papa or daddy or anything. She called him Loverboy. She really called him Loverboy. Okay. Mumsy and Loverboy. Yeah. That’s kind of weird to me, but if that’s what you like, did it.

(36m 54s):
And that’s what they did. They got it. They went on for two years with this hot affair. And as far as I know, his wife and her husband had no idea what was going on the whole time or maybe Albert didn’t care enough to try and find out, you know, that’s what I think. But she decided after two years of being in this Torrid affair with Judd, I sh I don’t know if she necessarily wanted to end it to be with Judd, but she definitely wanted Albert out of her life for good, like permanently out of his life. It sounds like she wanted him out of his life. Yeah. So before she started to try and kill him, she decided to take some life insurance policies out on her husband.

(37m 36s):
That’s a good practice. Yeah. Especially, you know, back then it was a lot easier than it is these days to get away with insurance fraud as with H Holmes. But with Ruth Snyder, she was, she, she might’ve got away with it, but you’ll see later why she didn’t. But she had three different life insurance policies, one thousand five thousand and forty 5,000 on her husband. The rumor is that she got him to sign all three of the policies by telling him that the first policy, which was only $1,000, he had to sign it in triplicate. So he didn’t even read the other two. He supposedly just signed them all and said whatever, get out of my face. So she got away with it. She kind of told him they were duplicates, right?

(38m 16s):
Yeah. Yeah. She said it was a form form in triplicate. So she, so he signed the first one and she’s like, okay, the other two are the same thing. Oh, he didn’t even know. Didn’t even know, read the fine print, bro. I know. I know you start to see the little things that come out to tell you, your wife is trying to kill you first off. She hates you And you hate her. So anyway, the $45,000 policy included double indemnity, meaning if his death was ruled an accident, Ruth would get 90,000 instead of just 45,000. So that sounds pretty sweet. At least that part of it. I feel like some accidents are about to happen.

(38m 56s):
Yes. She’s like I figured it out. Let’s make it look like an accident herself to herself because Jed is not helping her at this point. Oh, okay. According to Judd, who said this to the newspapers later on, Ruth tried to kill Albert seven times on her own before she recruited Judd to help her. Wow. Kind of a lot. It seems like a lot, especially The fact that Albert never figured it out, but She’s trying To set up accidents to happen to her husband and the ones I’m going to talk about both occurred in the garage. The first one he was working on the car, somehow she set it up so that the Jack that was holding up the car would break.

(39m 37s):
And hopefully the car would crush Albert, according to Ruth. That’s what she wanted. But it didn’t work. It broke, but he got out of the way. So he was fine. And then another time in the garage as well, he was working on the car again and she brings him some whiskey. I think the whiskey might’ve been laced with something or she just kept bringing him whiskey because he basically passed out in the garage. So while he was passed out, she locked, she, she turned on the car to leave it running and locked the door. So he was in there slowly, supposed to die, but he did it. He woke up and got out and saved his kid. Geez. At that point, didn’t she think like you could catch on like, that won’t feels pretty obvious.

(40m 17s):
You would think so. And there was according to judge seven whole times of weird near death accidents and Albert was just like, Oh, interesting, whatever. I’m okay. Wow. I feel like that’s every time that Stewie tried to kill Louis and Fayetteville, a guy that broke, I broke my neck and he’s like, damn you by a woman. That’s true. That’s how it feels. You just walking around. Like I could’ve died. How silly I bet Ruth is like Grinding her teeth in the corner. But yeah. So that’s only two of the times, the other times, I’m not going to talk about it.

(40m 57s):
I just pick the two interesting ones. But apparently, like I said, Albert didn’t notice anything wrong and it’s likely that she didn’t even try to do all these things in that Judd made it up for publicity later. It’s possible. It is possible. That’s the sucky part is that anyway, we’ll get to it. But 1927, March 12th, 1927, Ruth and Judd finally teamed up after several supposedly successful attempt. Ruth and Jed finally are like, okay, let’s make this happen tonight. So Ruth and her family, which is, and her daughter Lorraine went out for the evening when they got back, Jed was already snuck into the house and hiding in the guest bedroom where Albert would not likely to be not likely to find him.

(41m 45s):
Okay. After Albert and Lorraine were both kind of put to bed, Ruth snuck into the guest bedroom where Judd was waiting, she was wearing just a little sexy slip. It’s kind of, they wanted some pre murder action. So supposedly they had sex in the guest bedroom while waiting for Albert to fall asleep, kill time. Somehow kill time. You want to kill some time before we kill your husband, By the way, honey, I brought you some corsets, but could cause that’s part of the story is that apparently she was a little sensitive about her weight because she couldn’t shed all of the baby weight.

(42m 28s):
And that was another reason. She really liked him. Cause she got like cheap or free corsets. But anyway, get, get yours girl. Did it squeeze into it and squeeze into it, get it for free or for sex. I don’t know. But so Alper fall asleep and they snuck back into the bedroom where he was Judd had brought with him, wire chloroform and a five pound weight. It sounds like what? All I keep in my purse for self-defense right. Of course, of course. Yes. I don’t even know where to get chloroform. It might be super easy to get. I legit when they snuck in Albert’s asleep, Jed goes over to the bed with the weight, the five pound weight and he brings it down on top of Albert’s head to kill him now gonna have a splitting Headache in the morning right away Because Albert, all it did, it didn’t hurt.

(43m 19s):
I don’t know if it even hurt him that bad. Albert just woke up and was like, wait, what? Who are you? He’s hit hard headed. It’s cool. He jumped out of bed. He was pissed off. He would go into rages before with Ruth. So we know that he’s got some anger issues. He went into a rage and he started attacking Judd, probably thinking Judd was like sneaking into his house and trying to Burgle him or something. So him and Judd are fighting and jut is not very good at fighting. Remember this is a skinny guy with glasses. He don’t know how to fight. I don’t know how to fight. I just know how to sell closets and screw, screw your wife. Oh my God. You’re so good at that.

(44m 1s):
That’s awful. So yeah. Yeah. That’s it. Basically Jen was like, Oh shit. I don’t know how to deal with this. So he said, help me mumsy. If you want to go for it, Help my mom’s am trying to kill your husband. I’m not having much success here. Mom’s take it over half. Good. That’s exactly what happened. So Ruth was like, okay, I guess I got to come in and save the day. So she or not saved the day she jumped into the fight and she took the weight that Judd had dropped and brought it down on Albert’s head while he wasn’t paying attention. So he went down this time. Okay, good, Good, Good.

(44m 44s):
I’m just like, okay. I’m not rooting for any of these people except maybe the daughter Lorraine. I don’t know. But Albert went down like a sack of potatoes, but he wasn’t dead yet. So they stuffed his nostrils with chloroform, with cotton soaked, chloroform, chloroform, soaked cotton. And then she apparently took the wire that Al that Judd had brought and strangled Albert to death with it. Apparently that’s what Jed said happened. Jed also said that Ruth took their clothing that had blood on it and burnt it in the incinerator downstairs to get rid of the evidence now to make it look like it was a robbery. So they didn’t suspect Ruth or Judd.

(45m 26s):
Jed went around and ransacked the house trying to make it look like burglars had come in and, you know, thrown things around and stolen stuff. And the piece did as this dance, Jed tied up Ruth to a chair and shoved cheesecloth in her mouth to make it look like she got tied up by the burglars and left. There was, there was some cheese in the cheese cloth. Like he give her a snack, some kind of notch to keep her over until the morning, nibble, nibble a little, a sharp cheddar action about that. But I don’t think so. But Lorraine wakes up early the next morning because she hears her.

(46m 6s):
Mom’s calling for her and she heads outside out into the kitchen, finds her mom tied up and her mom says, go get the neighbors to help us. So Lorraine puts on her robe runs to the neighbor’s house where they call the cops and try and figure out what happened. Well, the cops untied Ruth and they start asking her questions like what happened last night? And what she told the cop was that two large Italian men had shown up. But while they were all basically about to go to sleep, Lorraine was already in her room asleep. And the two large Italian men stole her jewelry, tied her up, knocked her out and then they must’ve killed her husband after she was knocked out.

(46m 47s):
She didn’t know that part supposedly. Okay. So that’s her story. That’s what she says happened to the police. And the house did look turned over. Someone had gone through and like did some upturn furniture and stuff. And as far as they could tell on first glance, the jewelry was missing. So they were like, okay, maybe it’s a little bit of an open check case. We just got to find these two guys who did it. He’s too Italian nose. Okay. Yeah. But upon a closer examination, they start to see some inconsistencies in Ruth’s story. Oh. So she’s not the criminal mastermind. We all thought she was Not at all. In fact, you’re going to think dumb bitch for this in episode two episode, the job, I do remember sometimes things, But so Ruth being a dumb bitch, she said that the robbers took her jewelry.

(47m 41s):
Right? So you would think that she would hand Judd her jewelry as he was walking out the door to at least get it out of the house. I would think that, yes, I’m a logical person though. You are a logical person and Ruth was not. So what she did and she probably was like, well, I don’t want this to get too far away from me. And she took her all her nice jewelry and shoved it under her mattress. The cops found it and they were like, Oh, this doesn’t seem right. I don’t think burglars would put it here. So they were a little suspicious of that. They were also suspicious of how the house had been disheveled because it didn’t really fit a burglary. Instead. It was like, curtains were torn.

(48m 23s):
There was a couple pillows thrown around. There was a few chairs that were knocked down. It didn’t, it looked more like a party had been there. It was starting to look a little staged too. Yes. Yes. So they were like, whoever did this didn’t know what a robbery was actually gonna look like. So they got suspicious. That was Judd. So both of them are dumb bitches. Okay. I can take that. Yeah. At least they’re doing it together, but It starts to get into some harder evidence in her handbook. They found a check for $200 made out to Judd gray course at salesmen.

(49m 5s):
That’s how they found Judd’s name and added it to the mix. And then they were like, okay, well that could, could be for corset. Right? Sure. It could be. But they also found in the same bag, they found a letter from Jett, a love letter where he calls her mumsy. Not with a momsy again. Exactly. She’s keeping these things basically out in the open and being like, but it was robbers. Okay. I kind of sex. And then to add insult to injury, the cops found Albert’s tie pin. I remember it said the initials, JG, forget Jesse goose shard. Unfortunately they didn’t know Jesse grew shard and that no, there’s no reason for them to.

(49m 48s):
So they assumed it was Judd graze tie clip. Oh, I didn’t know. She was like that Damn tie clip. I’ve been hating it for how many years now. And it is the thing that brings me down. It will be the death of me. It is the death of her. Yeah. Albert’s a revenge from beyond the grave. Her real, super sucks for them. So basically the police realize what’s going on. They just have to get Ruth to admit it or, you know, find Judd, but they bring in Ruth and they’re like just a casual, like we just want to ask you some more questions to fill out the rest of the paperwork. So she’s like, sure, no problem. She goes in with them. And the one of the first questions out of his mouth, real casual, just making chit chat.

(50m 30s):
He says. And how about that? Jed gray. She says immediately, has he confessed? Oh no. She didn’t even be like, who’s that? I mean, who’s not, I don’t know. You mean the guy that sold me? My course, she could have said that, like, that name sounds familiar. I think I bought some courses from him, whatever him, you know, she made that real easy. She could have at least tried, but no, she did it. She said, has he confessed that like guilty conscience coming through? And they said, basically they were like, no bitch, but you just did. So Ruth and Judd after this whole debacle, they both get arrested for first degree murder.

(51m 10s):
And they go on trial as they should, Ruth and Jed immediately turn on each other and they start pointing the finger. Like it was all their idea to each other. Oh, so much for this, this lovey Debbie mumsy easiness. I know. Right. That was quick. So Ruth blamed Judd said that it was his idea to get the insurance policies and that he had done all the attacking on Albert and she didn’t do anything. What I told you guys before was Judd’s side of the story. His was a little bit more like, yes, I did participate, but it was mostly her idea. And she did the killing blow. So I, because of the differing stories, like for her, it was all Judd’s fault and Judd did everything.

(51m 52s):
And then he said, well, I did this stuff and she did this stuff. His sounded a little bit more believable because he was saying he was culpable a little bit too, but it didn’t matter. In the end, both of them got sent to the electric chair. Okay. So they’re both found guilty. Well, those are going To die. That was in 1927, May 13th, 1927. Both were found guilty by the jury. Judge sentenced them both to death. And they were sent to the death house at sing, sing the death house. Huh? Yeah. That’s where they send him back then. I think that’s what, it’s like a nickname for the Death row inmates, death Row. Thank you. Yeah, that’s what they called it in the newspaper anyway. But so they were going to go to death to the death house at sing sing, and then they were going to meet old Sparky.

(52m 38s):
The electric chair, Sparky specie. Is that like a brand name might as well be right? Cause the, the electric chair in Huntsville, Texas prison was also called old Sparky for a long time. So when, when I read this, I was like, no old Sparky’s in Texas. How dare you sing, sing. Try to steal the name. I’m sure it was Is a common nickname. And for those of you that don’t know, Paige actually went to college In Huntsville. So she would know that’s truly sad. I did, I did go to college in Huntsville and I also visited the Texas prison museum several times as a child. I’m so jealous. Like I live here. I need to go. I need to just pick a weekend and go. You should. I was awesome.

(53m 19s):
I’ve been there a lot. And if it’s still open, I don’t even know if it still exists, but if it does, I say go see it. Cause they have old Sparky in the F in the wood, not in the flesh. You can’t sit in it, but it would be cool if you could, God, if you could sit in it, I would be so happy. Wouldn’t that be great. Maybe they should charge for it like 20 bucks to sit in it. People would pay. I would pay. So anyway, I should have let them know next time I’m there. Yeah. Please give them a little tip. Like, Hey, by the way, I would’ve given you five stars on Yelp except except we can’t sit. Yeah. I want to send old Sparky. Even if you charge extra for it, I feel like that’s a perfect way to get haunted though. Like, Ooh.

(53m 59s):
Yeah. Good idea. Maybe don’t sit in it. Yeah. I mean, in theory it’s fun, but in actuality you go and get haunted. I would still do it anyway. So why is the execution of Ruth Snyder more important to the story than what the whole fucking thing that we just talked about? The reason I told the story was to tell you that, excuse me, the trial of Ruth and Judd was all over the tabloids. The entire time there was like local celebrities showing up just to sit in the trial for no real reason. These two were no names, but for some reason, the tabloids went nuts on their trial. So leading up to the execution of Ruth Snyder and Judd gray people were anticipatory of it because they had been following the trial the whole time.

(54m 47s):
So they were set to be executed January 12th, 1928, Judd and Ruth were going to be executed on the same day because they committed the same crime. And when it was Ruth’s turn at the electric chair, a reporter was there with a camera strapped to his ankle. He snuck it in how big were his pants? Cause I know those cameras had big. They were, they were so bulky, but there, there is a picture online of this guy with the camera on his ankle. His name is Tom Howard and it was a single use camera. So it was a little smaller than the other cameras they had of the day. But still pretty bulky. I guess people just weren’t looking at his ankle. I don’t know he has cankles. Exactly. He was maybe he limping a little bit.

(55m 28s):
So they thought maybe he had a fake, like I have no idea how he’s neck, this thing in. But he did. He was sitting down with a camera on his ankle and he worked for the New York daily news who had sent him in there. Not necessarily to get a picture too, but to get a good story, He thought he’d do one better. He Did. He was like, fuck you guys. I got to figure this out. Talking to the prison guards who were supposed to stop him. So as, as you can assume, cameras were not allowed at executions at electric chair executions. It just was I guess, poor taste. So they didn’t allow it. But he snuck one in Tom Howard did. So at the time, at the moment, Ruth Snyder sitting down, she gets the electric currents through her.

(56m 8s):
And as she’s dying after the whole thing is over, he takes, he pulls up the pan of his leg and takes a quick picture of her from that camera. Oh, she’s dying as she’s dying. So while she’s taking her last breaths, he points his toe at her and takes the picture and just hopes that it catches her. Cause you know, it’s a one-shot camera and I’m sure it probably had like a flash or something. So I bet all the prison guards we’re like, what the fuck was that he thought Sparky was sparking or something. Right? Maybe they thought it was normal. I don’t know. But he did get away with the camera. So I assume they did not know he got the picture. I think if they had known, they would try to confiscate the camera, but he, he got away with it.

(56m 51s):
So Ruth Snyder, poor Ruth Snyder was electrocuted to death. He took a picture of her while she was dying. And that’s where her infamy, you know, was solidified. So Did this make it like in the actual newspaper? It Did. It did the next day. It ran in his newspaper that he worked for the New York, New York, daily news. They ran it with the headline. I don’t know what the headlight actually was, but it was like, there was Ruth Snyder in the electric terror dying right in front of everybody’s faces. And they had never seen a picture like that before. It’s awfully gruesome to think about Super gruesome. Yes. And I think they explained in there, it wasn’t just her sitting there waiting to be electrocuted. It was while she was dying.

(57m 31s):
And that really sparked people either. I keep saying sparked unintentionally. Right? Unintentionally. I think it’s just in my vocabulary, but I can imagine. I mean, people have never seen somebody being electrocuted because they didn’t allow cameras in there. And this is the only picture before, or since that I know of, of a person dying in the instant, they’ve had pictures of executions before and after death, but not during. So this is the only one of its kind, as far as I know in the electric chair Up a picture and it’s awfully creepy, isn’t it A little creepy. It’s kind of, it’s like, if you just happen to see it without context, you might not know what it was or think it’s creepy.

(58m 17s):
But knowing what it is, makes it extra creepy. Definitely creepy. It almost looks like her limbs are a smidge blurred. Like she’s moving. Like I’m sure when a current’s going through you you’re shaking. But yeah. I think Same thing, Lisa, when I saw it too, and there’s other people who said the same thing that looks like it could just be that it’s a shitty camera. Cause it was, you know, a little one, not one off shot camera, but it does look like her limbs are still quivering. Like she’s still got the electricity shooting through her limbs. It Looks like there’s a dude standing behind her. I Wonder that too. It’s hard to tell because if you see the pic, so there’s the, the image of it. That’s cropped just of her, but then there’s the full image that, because he was, you know, taking it from the ground up, you can see the whole room basically with people standing there and you know, so it’s hard to tell really what’s going on behind her.

(59m 10s):
But yeah, it’s, it’s a crazy picture. And people have said they they’ve gotten as far to say as like you can, because of the blurriness, you can kind of see that she is dying and maybe like her coming out of her body. I’m not so sure about all that. I think that part of it is that you know, that she’s dying in the picture. So you kind of attach meaning to it, but who’s to say, yeah, cause it, It kind of looks like there’s someone behind her, but it also looks like she’s right up against us. Yeah. Yeah. So is it a weird shadow of the chair or is it a person standing there making sure it’s going okay. I don’t know how close they were allowed to stand. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the person, I mean, whoever, if there’s anything behind her, it like, I mean, like I said, it looks a little see-through, but it’s also against the wall and it could just be the camera catching, like a shadow or a blur of her moving and it, cause it looks almost about as tall as her, but it also kind of looks like, I dunno, it’s creepy.

(1h 0m 3s):
Y’all got to go look. All you have to do is put in roots, Snyder. And there she is. Yeah. Bruce Snyder, free Snyder, execution, whatever you want. You’ll find it. And this name is spelled S N Y D E R for Snyder. So yeah, he got this in the papers, the paper congratulated and thought he did a great job. Gave him a hundred dollars bonus just for this picture. Good job as a hundred. Good job, Tom. Somehow just like somehow Jed gray got out was like, yeah, Jet’s like good job, Tom Howard. Why don’t you come take a picture of me. Pretty good yourself. I try to copy you. You’re my teacher. Now you did really well. Oh thank you.

(1h 0m 45s):
But because of Tom Howard’s antics on the day of Ruth Snyder’s execution from that day forward, particularly in sing sing, they would always have the journalists lift their leg to make sure they didn’t have a camera on their ankle. That’s hilarious. And as far as I know, nobody else tried it and they probably caught on pretty quickly. Yeah. They were like, ah, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. So the, the journalist was allowed to go watch her. How common was it to allow someone to go watch an execution like that? Like I feel like nowadays, like there’s no way like only like friends and family and stuff like that are allowed to go You’re right. I don’t think today they even, I could be wrong, but I don’t think today they even allow reporters unless They were like specially invited or something.

(1h 1m 30s):
Yeah. Like if they had somehow developed a relationship with the person being executed and that person requests their presence, I believe that’s okay. But back then it wasn’t open to the public. I don’t think just anybody could get in to see an execution, but they did allow journalists, I believe, but just no cameras. So to wrap it up with Judd gray, our favorite forgettable face, I’m Doug gray. I got to forgettable phase, but I did a HANA Crime and they about to get me for it. I’m off the fry for real, as he is. Because unfortunately when it was his turn at the chair, the same chair, old Sparky that Ruth had just sat in, he unfortunately was botched.

(1h 2m 11s):
His execution was botched and his feet caught fire. Oh no. He was the one percenter. Yeah. He was the one of those one percenters whose whose execution was Oh geez. At Burton Ruth’s was it okay. Ruth was not botched. It was just photographed. It was just photographed. Yeah. So they both have interesting stories. Yay. Stupid Judd. I think it’s his fault that we see Ruth the way we do, because he was the one that talked to the paper more than she did. So the paper basically called him like some lovable Joe Schmoe who got wrapped up in her world. And she’s like this spider woman who, I don’t know, spider woman sounds more like Spiderman now, but I met black widow.

(1h 2m 51s):
I think that’s what you’re going for is a Blackwood. Thank you. Yeah. Like she was just trying to use him to kill her husband for her, what the media painted her as. And I’m not sure that’s the case. I kind of feel like it was the both of them, but she chose to keep quiet where he, yeah. You know, he told his story and you have no other story to like go off of. Yeah. Then that makes sense that they’re going to say, okay, well she’s the, she’s really the bad one. I mean he got roped into it because of her, right? Yeah. He’s this dumb Joe Schmo guy. He couldn’t come up with a plan like this. It’s gotta be that one. You know, I’m no, Joe Schmoe. I am dead gray. That’s terrible. Oh, you must have it wrong. So, but that’s our episode for today.

(1h 3m 33s):
Thanks everybody for listening. Be sure to check us out. We’ve got an Instagram at near death thoughts podcast. If you want to find us on Twitter, we’re at near death dolls and maybe you should send us an email at near death fellows, with your spooky, creepy or weird personal experience you want to share. We will be using it for a listener episode in the future and be sure to put in the subject line listener story or dear Dolly. So we know what your email is for, but also don’t forget. Please tell us if we can use your name or your social media handle or something in the episode, or if you’d prefer to be anonymous, because that would be cool too. We can handle that.

(1h 4m 13s):
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(1h 4m 53s):
Thanks to Sam. Heres for our art and music. If you’d like to see more from him, check out the links in our show notes.

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